Article I wrote to Mitesh's uncle

Ashutosh as you requested I am pasting the conversation I had with Mitesh's uncle.
You can write your comments....

Swaminarayan Philosophy(Saakar)

Uncle:
I read your e-mail. You have read a lot about hindu philosophy and that is highly appreciated. Let me clear some of the mis-concepts about Swaminarayan and his Vedanta philosophy.
First of all Swaminarayan was only hindu philosopher who harmonized the two different schools of thoughts – Shaiva Sidhanta and Vaisnava Shidhanta. He was against shuska Vedanta ( dry ) and he propogated pure Vedanta by defining the identity of Brahma and Parabrahma. Shuska Vedanta believes that God is all pervading brahma who becomes jivas and ishwaras and maya is mere illusion. For the matter of fact the whole world is an illusion or non-existant. This is absolutely ridiculous because the very common logic goes against it ( I will give points as it comes ). By this understanding there are many rishis in India who say: Aham Brahmasmi ( I am Brahma ) and Soham ( I am Him ). These people run after maya – wealth, women, etc. they cannot control their own senses, they have ego of highest order. Shankaracharya who firmly believed in Shuddha Vedanta knew that this philosophy will be misused. He went to visit one wine shop and drank wine to please the shopkeeper, His followers had no sense of how much to drink or whether it is worth drinking or not and because their guru did it they drank till they became drunk(intoxicated). Next Shankar Swami went to a shop where lead was melted for mixing with other metals. He had achieved true brahmic stage so he drank molten lead. All his disciples stood aghast. He told them to drink some of this molten liquid. No one dared to do it. Then he told them that by simply saying aham brahmasmi does not mean that you are in that stage. When you really forget your aham (ego) and see the whole world from the eyes of Brahma then only you have reached that stage. Brahmic stage means “Sarvam Idam Khalu Idam Brahma”.
Then he composed a poem of Bhakti or devotion to Lord Krishna:
Bhaja Govindam, Bhaja Govindam, Govindam Bhaja Mudha mate……
He composed eight verses devoted to Krishna to tell his Mudha or agnani or ignorant followers that your knowledge is shuska or dry without true devotion

Me:
Yes I accept that saying Aham Brahmasmi with a lot of EGO is totally incorrect. Without reaching the Brahmic stage saying these words have no meaning. But some people call the world as non-existent or a dream. This may not be condemned as ridiculous as even Shankaracharya was of this opinion. He was a pure Vedantin and a pure Advaitist. Not that Vedas talk of only Advait philosophy. Vedas accept Advait, Vishisht Advait and Dvait all paths. Its upto a seeker to find out which path is the best for him.
But Shankaracharya incarnated himself to spread Advait philosophy specifically because at that time Budhism and Jainism were taking control over whole of India and to preserve the essence of Vedas, Shankaracharya strongly condemned these religions and purely by logic and debates he established the Vedanta Advait philosophy again. The question is why did he propagate only Advait philosophy and not Dvait or Vishist Advait?. The reason is that time demanded him to do so. If he would have tried to propagate any other dualistic philosophy that time, people would not have accepted it because then they were better off following Jainism and Budhism then. He had to raise himself to the highest plane of pure Advait to lay the foundation of Hindu philosophy back in India. But that does not mean that the other philosophies were not true and people should not follow those. Once ramakrishna was asked by a disciple, and I am quoting this directly from the Gospel of Ramakrishna.
A Brahmo Devotee: Is god with form or without form ?
Ramakrishna: One cannot define and limit him. He is both with form and without it. He assumes form for the sake of his devotee. He is without form for a jnani, for those who think that world is a dream. The devotee thinks that he is a self-contained existence, the world is another. Therefore god reveals him to the devotee as a person. Jnani, like a vedantin always reasons denying everything, NOT THIS NOT THAT. After discrimination jnani has a perception within that both the ego and the world are false like a dream. The Satchidananda (existence, consciousness, bliss) is like ocean without shores. At places it turns into forms, under the influence of devotion like blocks of ice. That is god sometimes manifests himself with forms for his devotees. When the sun of knowledge rises the ice melts and what is left is just one sea the formless.
This is a very big description which he has given and at the gist of it he says that people who follow god with form are pure devotees and for people who follow god without form are Vedantins. So he tells that Brahmo Devotee that it does not matter whether you accept god with form or without form. It is enough for you to have the understanding that God is a person who listens to your prayers, creates preserves and destroys and a person who has limitless power. God is easily realized in the path of devotion. (END)
Ramakrishna Paramhansa had all kinds of disciples and he used to talk different philosophies to different disciples based on their spiritual background and the kind of yearning they had to know God. For example his disciple Girish was a pure dualist and was a believer in God with form. And Vivekananda was a non dualist to the core and did not accept Sakar Brahman. Its just the spiritual inclination a person has, and we should not try to discriminate between worshiping form or formless. Kabir used to say “God without form is my father and god with form is my mother”

Let me give you my reasoning of why world can be called as a dream. The world exists in the mind. When our mind stops working the world does not exist for us (eg. SLEEP). Mind is temporary and when a person has realized God his mind dissolves. So when the mind is dead then where is the question of this world. Does this world exist for a person who is in deep Samadhi. The only thing he sees is God, Divine light, bliss.
Lord Swaminarayan strongly propagated the philosophy that God is with form. This is again a perfect example of how time demanded the Lord to preach a different philosophy. The vedantins with just bookish knowledge of vedas and not actual experience had to be pacified and shown the path of devotion to dissolve their EGO. So strong stmts. Like not to read anything related to Vedanta were made by the lord. We should always try to understand God words in the context and times they were spoken. Another example is Krishna while talking to Arjun says that karma yog is superior to jnana or bhakti. He had to make such a statement or else arjun was bent upon becoming a sanyasi and renunciating everything and not fight in the war to follow the path of jnana yog. By making such a stmt. He could convince arjun to do his Karma (Shatriya Dharma to fight the unrightous). But is it always true that Karma is superior to Jnana or Bhakti? NO. All have their own importance and no one is superior. Its just the seeker to whom a particular path looks more attractive. When we read any scriptures I believe that rather than understanding it in context, we should try to understand the meaning it conveys as a whole.





Uncle:
Swaminarayan ( we will call him Maharaj ) explains this Brahmic stage very well. If a person climbs a small mountain, he will see the world getting smaller. He can see people, trees, etc but in smaller dimension. If he climbs girnar ( mountain in Gujarat) , he will see the small houses and rivers but not the humans and if he climbs mount everest ( he mentions lokalok parvat) he wont see anything. Just as we travel in a plane, at certain height we do not see anything. For us the whole world is mere sky same way one who achieves brahmic stage – he does not see man or woman or animals or trees but he sees God everywhere – he sees his divinity everywhere.

Me:
This is so true. Beautiful explanation.





Uncle:
Next thing I would like to tell you is that Maharaj harmonized both schools of thought: he told his devotees to strictly obey his code of conduct described in Shikshapatri which every devotee must read and follow. In this book he mentions:
- 5 devas must be revered: Vishnu, Shiva, Parvati, Ganpati and Aditya(Surya)
- There is necessity of both Shankar and Vishnu as they are one form of God
- One must bow to every mandir that comes on your way while traveling
- Those who are Brahmins and follow their tradition of wearing rudraksh and applying triprundra on forehead must continue to do so ( this is not acceptable to vaisnavas)
He harmonized by meeting the needs of both bhakti marg of vaisnavas and Gnana marg of Shaivas by stating that “Nijatmanam Brahmaroopam….”Verse 116 of shikspatri – one must become brahmaroop and then do the bhakti of saakar God and pragat(living entity) God. In vachnamrut – he states in Loya 7: Without becoming brahmaroop one cannot serve God. This is identical to Bhagwad Geeeta’s: Brahmabhootah Prasannatma na sochati na kanxati, samah sarvesu bhuteshu mad bhaktim labhate param.

Me:
The next shlok mentions
Sarvakarmaanyapi sadaa kurvaano madvyapaashrayah;
Matprasaadaadavaapnoti shaashwatam padamavyayam

By devotion he knows Me in truth, what and who I am; and knowing Me in truth, he forthwith enters into the Supreme.

Again Lord Krishna has summarized the whole vedanta in Geeta. He talks about multiple paths. Here is telling Arjun the importance of devotion. That does not mean that what all he talked in the previous adhyas about Jnana, Karma, Raja is incorrect. When we talk in terms of devotion we should not try to compare it with other paths instead strictly think in terms of devotion. Also the shlok which you have mentioned does not say that without becoming brahmaroop one cannot serve God. What it says is that once you attain Brahmaroop then he attains supreme devotion onto me. That means that on achieving Brahmaroop, ones atma always is one with the parmatma.





Uncle:
Hindu philosophy is broadly divided into three schools:
1. Shaiva – darsanic, kevaladwaita, advaita,
2. Vaishnava – vishistadwaita, shuddhadwaita, pustimarga
3. Shakta – shakti
Shriji Maharaj established a different form of vishistadwaita – called navya vishistadwaita – here bhakti is acceptable only after becoming pure or brahmaroop and secondly upasana is of one GOD and not of God with his Param Bhakta like – Radha-Krishna, Sita-Ram, Nar-Narayan, Laxmi-Narayan. We see Param Bhakta Gunatitanada Swami next to God Swaminarayan in temple, but that has different meaning. One had to become bhakta like Gunatitananda Swami to stay in Lord’s abode – Akshardham and do his bhakti. This is different from all other bhakti sampradayas which believe in yugal upasana or God with his devotee together (couple).
Yes following a particular path is Good like this one where you don’t believe in Prem Bhakti. Radha Krishna, Sita Ram are examples of prem bhakti where a person starts imagining God as his spouse and that way tries to attain him. But yeah believing in a particular way is good but condemning others is what I think incorrect.

In the past there were many devotees who saw divine light and considered that as God – like Moses, Mohammed in western religions and Shankaracharya, Rishis of early vedic period, Kabir, Sant Gnaneshwar, Nanak, etc. There were many who saw physical form of God, like Arjuna, Hanuman, Sita, Meera, Tukaram, Namdev, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Narsinh Mehta. Each one were satisfied with the vision and firmly believed in what they saw. Their lives were entirely different from worldly people.
Now let us see the common logic:
1. How can a creator be formless when the whole world has special form?

Me:
World is just one aspect of our daily life. Yes world has form and that’s the reason the creator has form. But does our mind have form? NO. Do thoughts flow in some form? NO. So I can argue that when we have the world with forms and our mind or thoughts without form then creator has to be with and without form. And world is just one aspect of the actual reality. We cannot jump to a conclusion that the creator has form just becomes world has form. And also I mentioned world exists in the mind of the perceiver. When mind stops, world ceases to exist. And that’s what is the main focus of meditation. All experiences are in the mind of the experiencer.

Uncle:
2. how can there be heaven or hell, satan and angels if their owner is formless. A formless entity does not need any place.

Me:
Heven, hell, satan angels are all again the states of the mind. They have no meaning for a person who sees divine light.

Uncle:
3. how can we believe in Vaikuntha, Goloka, Brahmadham or Akshardham or any lokas of indra, brahma, devas, etc when their maker is formless

Me:
Again the aspects of mind. Devas exist as long as your mind exists. Soul has nothing to do with them. Soul is not confined to any particular Deva, Jiva. Its all pervading. Yes we can believe in Vaikunth, Golaka etc. but is that the final abode or we have to rise above that.

Uncle:
4. if we are part of Him – why we are so ignorant, why we have to obey His laws, why should there be laws at all????

Me:
This is a question asked by all dualist sects. Even people in ISKCON raise this question.
It’s the same power of ignorance and the power of knowledge which has manifested within us. The divine power minifests itself as the power of ignorance in some and power of knowledge. The power of knowledge is manifested in infinite magnitude in some people and these are the people whom we call as avatar. Also one thing we need to remember is that ignorance is limited and finite there cannot be infinite ignorance. But knowledge is infinite and that’s the reason any attempt to get this knowledge will fail if we try to do it merely by our senses. But finite ignorance can be abolished by using our senses and so we do all the upasana, bhakti, karma etc. Laws of the universe have been broken by several Yogis of the past. How can they break these laws. And there has to be some law, how can the universe function without laws. To maintain harmony we need laws. A person who goes beyond all laws has achieved the Brahman. That does not mean he can to break laws.

Uncle:
5. maya is not an illusion, it is an abstract form however all pervading in form of Ego, Love, attachment, greed, lust, avarice, etc
Me:
This is a different approach and the basic difference between Advait and Vishist Advait. Nirakar and Sakar Brahman.

Uncle:
6. world is not an illusion. It is physically there however it is destructible and God and his abode is non-destructible
Me:
I gave an explanation to this before.

Uncle:
7. God spoke with Moses and gave him Ten Commandments written on stone – Moses refused to see the face of God – he said he is burning, he cant bear the divine light. Similarly God gave Koran to Prophet mohammed – who never asked him how he looked. Mohammed also went to seven heavens and had personal chat with God, whom he describes as divine light

Me:
This is true.

Uncle:
8. Jesus said he is son of God – how can that be possible – if a formless one gives a form

Me:
Again we should not try to derive a direct meaning from the sentence but instead get the gist of what he is saying. We all are sons of God. God made us. So we are his sons. Whats wrong in saying that. Even Einstien proved for that matter that Energy and be converted to Matter. That is again a conversion from formless to form. What I am trying to say is that we should not be stuck upon the fact that God is with form and not formless. Instead saying we believe a god with form is more appropriate. I mean you cannot jump to conclusion that god is with form merely because of these reasons.

Uncle:
If we are all God’s divine pieces, we do not need him at all. If whole world is pervading Brahma, there should be no hell, no war, no problems, no pain.

Me:
Why cant brahma manifest itself as pain, suffering and problem. Why does it always have to manifest itself as pleasure, happiness, peace. As long as you see pleasure, you will see pain. Once your are above pleasure, then pain wont also affect you. Again all these are the states of the body and the soul is pure.
Nainam chhindanti shastraani, nainam dahati paavakah,
Na cha enam kledayanti aapah, na shoshayati maarutah".
This is a shlok from the Geeta describing the soul. Pain and Pleasure mean nothing for a realized person. If you ask this same question to an advaitist he will say “War, problems and pain belong to your body and this world. When there is no world then where is the question of all these things” But I am not denying their existence. Different people have taken different approach because its not within the capacity of every one to just reject war, pain saying that its all an illusion.

Uncle:
Only problem is in our understanding the difference between divine body and prakrut or physical body. God is made of Divine elements, His abode is made of divine element, His devotees who stay in His abode are made of divine element. This divine element cannot be perceived by our physical senses.

Me:
This is so true.

Uncle:
We have only our soul which is divine however it is fused with “Karan Sharir”(Causal Body). This Causal Body makes atma take birth again and again in different yonis and forms. This is due to unfulfilled vasna(desire - variety of attachments created by our stay in different births). This causal body makes atma take form of sthula or sukhsma sharer(body) according to sanchit karma ( all collection of past deeds ). Causal body only burns in “Brhma-Agni” or when atma comes in contact with Pure Brahma Purush – Gunatit Saint – Who by his Gnana removes Maya or Causal Body from Atma by brainwashing him with words, action and practice. He tells Jiva who is agnani or ignorant that whatever you are wishing in this material world is destructible, miserable, attachment causing and birth giving. He convinces him by telling him again and again that Atma is Satya, Paramatma is Satya, Avinashi, Achyut. Jiva goes through a rigorous process of self-detachment, called yogi’s sadhana. Maharaj gives examples of Imli Seed when roasted in fire, detaches from skin, worm turning into bee by constant biting of bee. Atam detaches from 24 tattvas – 5 sthula or physical – prithvi, jal, tej, vayu and akash and nineteen sukshma or intrinsic – 5 gnana indriya, 5 karma indriya, 5 prana, 4 antahkaran(man, buddhi, chitta and ahamkar) and gets Brahma Tanu or divine body if he believes in Saakar God or remains in divine light like a formless shape but intellectual in all other ways like those following Vedanta not believing in physical form of God. God’s elements are simply incomprehensible, they are divine. We cannot perceive Him, unless our eyes become divine or Brahmaroop like Arjun’s Sight during the beginning of war in Mahabharata. Maharaj describes form of God in different ways: God’s body is Chida-Ghana – Ekarasa Chaitaiya (one uniform element in solid form ) – like coconut made of sugar – is all sugar – its casing is sugar, its inside is sugar, you cannot differentiate. God’s body does not have Shisna-Udar (Stomach and Linga or penis ), God’s body emanates tremendous light – like if earth is covered with mirror and entire steller system consists of suns, and imagine how much light is reflected by earth!!!! That much light emanates from his body but it does not burn like sun, it is cool – shital, it is calm – shant, it has a pleasing effect that pleases all our senses which are divine now and it becomes one and not separate like physical senses – eyes, ears, touch, mouth, skin. Maharaj describes his abode in Gadhada II – 13, He says that when he sees only light he is not happy but when he sees divine devotees with God, he is pleased. Then he says that that God is He himself and if you cannot believe that atleast have faith and believe that that God is seen by this Maharaj constantly. We firmly believe that we have seen Live God in Physical form like us – but his divinity is hidden to make us comfortable to stay with Him. It is greatest Nar-Natak (Greatest acting by God in form of human), but true believers will always see his divinity like – Arjuna, Gopies of Vrindavan, Vidur, Sita, Lakshman, Hanuman and other devotees.

Me:
This is the theory and as I said God can manifest the way it is described above.

Uncle:
Our early vedic period was Vedanta period. Rishis did sadhana, tapas, etc and attained knowledge. They discussed and formulated theories known as Upanishads, Darsans, etc.
They described God as Brahma or pure divine light.
Were they wrong or their Sadhana incorrect ?
Later Bhagwan Veda Vyasa defined God in most appropriate manner. He described two forms of God – Saguna and Nirguna. Saguna is one who takes form in various shapes depending on what work or karya he has to do. He accepts guna of maya without being bound by it and releases from that guna without any hassles. His nirguna swaroop is all pervading brahma – chidakash – divine light beyond physical world.

Me:
So the above stmt. Should make you accept that brahman is nirguna.

Uncle:
Beyond ashta avaran or eight obstacles : prithvi, jal, tel, vayu, akash, mahattatva, pradhan purush, prakriti purush. Vyasa Sutra is considered final authority for all philosophies of Hinduism. Vyasa himself had to take solace in Srimad Bhagwat – pragat or living God’s Charitra or life features. His son Shukdevji was born brahmagnani yet he is continuously reading Bhagwat to all devotees who want to reach God’s abode. Vyasa Bhagwan’s last two works – Skandha Purana and Srimad Bhagwat Purana are based on Saakar philosophy. God has given us his own very form – a droplet of his intelligence, only to know Him when we see him in physical form. Sun had to come in physical form to play with Mata Kunta. God becomes sajatiya (looking alike )
with humans to play with them, eat with them and show them His Supreme powers once in a while and once his devotees recognize Him and His divinity, they obey His commands of detaching from Maya – Physical attachments – mother/son, husband/wife, etc and thinking oneself as pure atma or soul as his real Self. Once purified God takes them to his Divine Abode. We have the best form in entire animal world, best intelligence, what for? Just to eat, sleep, fear, fornicate like animals. NO!!! it is only for understanding and recognizing God.

Me:
That’s true

Uncle:
The greatest creator of world religious scriptures – Vyasa says after writing 18 puranas, Mahabharata, Vyasa Sutra and Four Vedas: “Alodya sarva shastrani, vicharya cha punaha punaha; Idam ekam sunispannam, dhyeyo Narayano hari”
After reading and understanding all my books, I have come to conclusion that the only goal of a human life is to achieve God.
If you see the cultures and religions of formless God, they have no leaders to guide them.

Me:
That’s absolutely incorrect. Eg. Ramakrishna Paramhansa, Nisargadatta Maharaj Visit the site http://www.nonduality.com and see the list of teachers who are preaching pure non-duality.

Uncle:
They believe in Book. They have nothing to pursue after. No achievement to make. They are ship without rudder.

Me:
Making this stmt. Is incorrect. They do meditate on the formless. They say Soham Soham till they realize the absolute. Its just a different path. No path allows you to condemn a different path. Only thing it says that follow this path with full convinction.

Uncle:
When Vivekananda asked Ramakrishna Paramhansa whether he had seen God, he affirmed that he had seen God. The conviction was so strong, that Vivekananda who was an atheist till then turned into a believer.

Me:
And then the same Ramakrishna advised Vivekananda to follow pure advait because that was the best path for him as he had a scientific and discriminating mind. Once had established himself as a pure advaitist then Ramakrishna asked him to show humility towards other paths too. That is the reason in all his lectures Vivekananda talks about jnana, bhakti, karam and 100 other paths. But that was to impart knowledge. His by nature was a pure advaitist.

Uncle:
Bhakti sampradaya has flourished when devotees believed in living God – one who is pure in all respects – detached from all worldly pleasures – God resides in Him. However Bhakti Sampradaya failed when they tried to emulate God’s action without detaching from Maya – or worldly pleasures.

Me:
That is true.

Uncle:
Vedanta failed because to believe in formless God is like not believing at all – who is watching – no one.

Me:
This is a very strong stmt. To make. Vedanta has been the basis of our whole hindu philosophy. And this is a misconception that Vedanta talks about only advait. We should never condemn the vedanta. As I said again, the rishis who wrote the vedanta were they incorrect in their analysis?. And I am afraid more and more people start running away from Vedanta their might be a need for another Shankaracharya to come and reestablish the Sanatana Dharma. We should never try to dilute the Vedanta. Vedanta is the purest form of knowledge we have in our culture.

Uncle:
Look at the the majority religions of world – how much hippocracy is there. Seeing is believing – when you do not see or perceive – you do not believe. Geeta gives answer to all our Qs – Lord Krishna tells Arjuna :
Just follow me, believe in me – I will give you Moksha. Why he did not show him divine light and told him that that is God and not himself??? Because divine light is emanated from Him and not the other way around.

Me:
Again the context is important. Yes divine light is emanated from him. But then does that prove that God has form. Krishna was showing his divine roop with form to Arjun. At that time Arjun did not have the capacity to experience the formless God may be.

Uncle:
Bhagwat gives us a list of divine virtues of Living God on earth – when you see these virtues in a person consider him as living God; these virtues are : shama(contended), dama(self restrained), daya(piety), santosh(satisfied), paropkari(selfless), amani(gives respect to others), ajatashatru(forgives his enemy), etc there are 30 virtues of Saintly God (Dattatraya, Kapil, Shukdev, Rishibhdev) and 39 virtues of King God (Rama , Krishna). Even when someone has one virtue like mother teresa or Gandhiji or jesus(just piety and humility), they are praised as God. If someone has combination of 30 virtues – imagine the divinity of that person – if you wish to see that today – go and reside with Pramukh Swami Maharaj – 750 highly learned educated youths have relinquished their worldly pleasures and followed path of ascetism after him. There are 30 from USA, 25 from UK and rest from India are engineers, doctors, and so on.

Me:
I do respect Pramukh Swami.

Uncle:
We had in every centuries persons like Ramakrishna Paramhansa, Kabir, Nanak, Narsinh Mehta, Meerabai, Namdev, Gnaneshwar, Tukaram, Jaidev, Chaitanya, who were born with divine powers, who showed path to God in different ways – by Bhakti or Dhyana or Upasana. Whichever way you follow, have firm conviction, follw up with action by following the way shown by its preachers. Lead a pure, non-attached life, control our senses, do Dhyana, Yoga, Upasana and follow a true spiritual guide or leader one who himself is detached from world – one who is not a magician giving worldly elements like money or chains or ashes, one who is truly devoted to God – one who is selfless, praying for everyone. Without A Satpurush (God realized Saint) one cannot learn Shastras (scriptures), otherwise those same Shastra will become Shastras (weapons) to destroy others – just look at Islam today – Koran interpreted by fanatics has become a weapon.

Me:
This is absolutely correct. We should follow our path with conviction. But the moment we try to believe that our path is the best and start condemning other paths, I don’t approve of this.

Uncle:
If you need more guidance talk to our highly educated saints when they come in your area. We have saints in India who are Sarva-Darsan Acharyas – they have done doctorate or Ph.D in various philosophies of India – Vedanta and others. I am still a K.G. student in understanding philosophies but I have seen divinity, I have experienced divinity, I have seen my Guru very closely for many years, I have seen my Guru’s Guru for 7-8 years when I was teenager, and my Guru’s Guru’s, Guru’s was seen by my mother and described his divinity.
That’s great. Seeing divinity is a virtue of gifted few. I respect you.
You can just see how Mitesh has remained in bounds of Dharma inspite of living in USA university where everyone drinks, fornicates, eats anything. This is just because of his firm belief in his Guru.
This is true. He is a very disciplined person with respect to daily puja. Swaminarayan organization does an excellent job by inculcating this daily discipline amongst its followers.
Show me one Vedanti who follow all precepts of true dharma?

Me:
There are many. We should not challenge that.

Uncle:
Yes there might be great gurus who are vedanti but they cannot convince others of God’s divinity. They are all busy themselves in seeing divine light.

Me:
Why, there are so many list of teachers http://www.nonduality.com. Also a simple example is ramakrishna Paramhansa. He did convince others about gods divinity. He didnt even call himself anything in particular. Because he said these are all the paths. Don’t get involved in identifying yourself with a particular path, to such an extent that you forget the actual place where all these paths end. Rise above all paths, all gunas and you will than become free. But at the same time following a path with conviction should be the sadhana in ones life.

Uncle:
If you still have questions please go ahead nad ask, I will try my level best to answer them with God’s grace and Guru’s strength in me.

Me:
I would appreciate your comments about what I have written. Please don’t get offended if some stmts you find them harsh.